Andrew WilsonvsBlake Lovely

Blake argued that every trans person has androgen polymorphism at a genetic, cellular level, and that men and women without it do not experience gender dysphoria.

Andrew disputed the claim that every trans person has this condition and asked Blake for the research supporting it.

Blake argued that Andrew is on the wrong side of history, citing earlier rights movements such as women's suffrage, civil rights and gay rights, whose opponents did not prevail.

Blake argued that some people who are not trans have serious psychological trauma and have been given easy access to a medical condition, so the condition has been appropriated and weaponised.

Asked whether trans people who lack this condition are trans, Blake said every trans person has it, that there are exceptions among people who do not, and that he does not affirm all identities.

Andrew argued that psychology is a soft science affected by the replication crisis, and that trans science is new, with few longitudinal studies and little meta-analysis. He asked why the claim should be believed, and whether society must tolerate behaviour arising from a condition even if one exists.

Blake said Andrew's position is cruel to a tiny population that is hiding. He argued that Andrew's appeal to majority opinion ignores religious Christians who regard trans identities as a lie, and that asking them to affirm trans identities while Andrew does not affirm theirs is one-sided.

Andrew said the slippery-slope warning has proven accurate, since adult transition treatment has extended to children. He said hormones for children are generally a bad idea, that Europe has outlawed much of this treatment, and that no physical medical problem justifying it has been identified.

Blake said sports participation should be decided case by case, requiring hormone levels within the female range for an appropriate period, no physical advantage, and thorough medical testing and approval. He said men are stronger on average and that a trans athlete dominating competition should not be allowed.

Blake said that in most cases he is against trans participation in sports, with a few exceptions. He cited a volleyball case, argued that national attention is out of proportion to the roughly 0.04% of Americans who are trans, and said Andrew's preferred tolerance encourages that behaviour.

Andrew said he supports trans women competing in women's sports, in a tone he presented as sarcastic. He argued that women who backed affirming policies would now bear their consequences in their own sports, which he called ironic.

Andrew argued that reports of trans athletes come from a single third-party website with no fact-checking, that national coverage reduces to about seven cases, and that Arkansas banned trans participation in all sports over one trans boy who wanted to play football.

Andrew said concern among women about trans athletes is overhyped, and that the national attention is a boogeyman used to distract from other issues.

Blake argued that the bathroom issue has been politicised and should be studied medically and scientifically, and scaled back in importance. He said the country was founded on freedom and minding one's own business rather than absolutist ideologies, called for less fear and more open-mindedness, and said 71% of the country supports affirmation against 29% opposed.

Andrew argued that Blake calls for open dialogue but answers any counter-argument by labelling it bigotry, fascism or totalitarianism, which he said is the same as refusing to hear the other side.

Blake said Andrew talks down to him in a condescending tone, and that refusing to use she for a trans woman is itself cruel because it forces the speaker to lie.

Blake said Andrew is effectively saying trans people do not exist and do not deserve respect, and that his own argument has been that trans women are trans women, not biological women.

Blake argued that human-rights disputes such as slavery, women's suffrage, civil rights and gay rights have historically divided public opinion in a similar way to the current debate.

Blake argued that trans people are about 0.04% of the US population, so fears of social contagion are overblown. He cited Thailand, where he said trans people are called she and left alone, as an example of normalisation without the fixation he attributed to critics.